CodeCapitals.com expands to USA and India
Now you can compare Software Engineer's saving rates across the globe.
Hi everyone!
That’s right: I’ve added a few American cities and Bangalore to codecapitals.com.
If you want an intro to the website and/or want to adjust the numbers to guess saving rates outside of Big Tech, you can check this article.
I’ve also added a “modification on Zurich”. A little tax trick that I think was worth mentioning. Namely that, if you’re working in Zurich, you could also live in Zug - a nearby town (approximately 30 to 60 minutes distant from Zurich) - and pay less taxes. This becomes more significant at high income rates, and already impactful at entry-level Software Engineer’s salaries in Big Tech.
Which cities did I add?
For the US: New York, Seattle, San Francisco, Austin, Miami.
For India: Bangalore.
For Europe: Zurich with tax residence in Zug.
Why these ones?
1. USA
For the US, I tried to add the main tech hubs in the country, or the main cities that can be appealing.
New York, Seattle, San Francisco, Austin are the biggest tech hubs in the US, and most software engineers working in big tech in the US live in one of these cities.
Miami seemed to me like an interesting one to add since, while not being a huge tech hub, it still has a decent tech presence (especially if compared to cities in Europe) and offers some appealing aspects like a bustling nightlife, good weather and beaches, low taxes, good food, practical for travelling to Europe, etc.
There are other good cities in the US that I didn’t add: Denver, Atlanta, Los Angeles, San Diego, and others.
Maybe I could add them in the future.
Especially Denver and Atlanta, given that for the other cities in California the saving rates will be very similar to San Francisco.
2. India
I wanted to add India to be able to make some analysis and consideration about it, and I added Bangalore as I think it’s the main tech hub over there, and I don’t think the conditions in Hyderabad (the other big tech hub) will be all that different.
3. Zurich with the Zug tax trick
🤓
Considerations
1. Seattle for the win
Seattle seems to be the city in the world where as a big tech software engineer you’d be able to maximise your savings.
Thanks to not having state taxes, and having a huge big tech presence (second only to San Francisco Bay Area) with high salaries, it can easily beat all the other cities in the list when it comes to savings.
It can be a bit rainy though and people might not be the most welcoming. There’s even a wikipedia page for the so-called “Seattle Freeze“: «The Seattle Freeze is, according to widely held belief, a difficulty with making new friends in the U.S. city of Seattle, Washington, particularly for transplants from other areas.»
Sounds like Zurich 😂
Also, similarly to Zurich, it is a city famous for its nature: mountains (Mount Rainier), forests and ocean.
It’s also known for being the hometown of the rock band Nirvana, and for the movie Sleepless in Seattle, a cute rom-com from 1993, which also inspired this silly rap video.
2. New York, a city for the youngsters and seniors alike
New York seems to have the characteristic of not being the best USA pick for maximising savings as an entry-level in big tech (only 10k USD savings for luxurious lifestyle as junior SWE, similar to Munich or Belgrade).
Yet, for obvious reasons, it’s a great city for young people, which could make up for the lower saving rates.
This lower saving rate for juniors is due to the fact that it has a high cost of living, in addition to having relatively high taxes (30%-35%) already at 150k-250k USD income levels.
For mid-level and seniors, it seems to have better saving rates: similar to Zurich, but mostly lower than other US cities.
3. Austin here to stay
Austin gained a lot of popularity in recent years and it reached a peak-hype time during Covid when celebrities such as Joe Rogan moved here and Elon Musk moved Tesla’s HQ here as well.
Austin also doesn’t have state income taxes (same as Seattle and Miami), which helps in retaining the very respectable income that devs make here, and it still has a lower cost of living than most of the US cities added here.
It also has a sizeable big tech presence. Less than SF-Bay, NYC and Seattle, but right after these top 3.
Climate is sunny but it can get very hot in summer, food is good (of course, great for BBQ lovers), the city I heard it’s a bit of a suburbia (downtown with offices and places to go out and suburbs with homes to commute to and from by car) but don’t quote me on this. It’s also a good places for live music apparently.
It could be a good option!
4. San Francisco Bay Area… Them Cali taxes!
Silicon Valley, the homeland of many big tech companies that shaped our internet… Monastery of Venture Capital… IPO IPO IPO… HBO TV Show… Emily Chang…
And high taxes.
Yup.
Taxes here are a bit on the high side, and it doesn’t seem to be the best place in the US for saving rates. Although still being pretty good (similar to Zurich, all in all).
The bay area also has the largest presence of big tech jobs while also having a huge amount of startups paying big tech rates. Some of these startups might also be interesting especially if they’re pre-IPO and you want to try your luck in being an IPO millionaire. Although it seems like nowadays IPOs are not so common anymore until something changes in the macro financial situation (Databricks for instance seems to be “about to IPO” since 3 or more years).
It’s still definitely a great option.
Housing is not affordable and of very low quality though. AFAIK
I heard that lifestyle-wise it’s better to live in San Francisco than in the nearby tech towns.
I think the crowd in the bay area is not so diverse, as most people work in tech or in the startup world. It could get a bit boring, for some.
Big Indian and Chinese communities. Asians in general.
5. I already talked about Miami
At the beginning of this article.
I think it could be an interesting options for those having high paying US-remote jobs.
6. How practical is to live in Zug and work in Zurich?
So, we’ve seen how living in Zug makes quite a big difference if you’re Swiss-based. For seniors it can be a 30k+ difference in yearly saving rates. I mean it’s not a huge difference, but could be worth it if you don’t mind living outside of Zurich.
Several people do it. Especially if you’re above senior levels, then it makes an even greater difference.
I wanted to add it to have a fair “best option for savings” for Europe-based people.
7. Is it worth leaving India for Europe and the US?
A difficult question.
Maybe even one worth a separate article.
A few considerations:
Moving to the US means dealing with a critical visa situation and always feeling at risk of getting “deported”.
Moving to Europe means not having dramatically different saving rates to those you’ll have in India. You can still save more in Europe, but not that much more.
Great option if you don’t like to live frugally: given the very low cost of living in India, you can see how if you select “luxurious” lifestyle in CodeCapitals, Bangalore tends to have a higher spot than with other lifestyle options.
If your life is India (your friends, family, home, etc), these lower saving rates will go a longer way than if your life is in Europe or the US, even if adjusted with the European or US saving rates. Basically, I think you would feel relatively more rich in India than in Europe or the US, as a big tech engineer.
Of course, living in the US or in some places in Europe, maybe even living frugally, and then coming back to India, could be an interesting option that leverages geo-arbitrage. This article could be interesting for you if you like this option.
